Down the Rabbit Hole
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Down the Rabbit Hole
Anna Bezuglova - Movement as Life Practice
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Anna Bezuglova, founder of Bamboo Body in Barcelona, shares her transformative journey studying under Ido Portal for 11 years and explains how movement practice addresses the whole person beyond just physical fitness. She articulates a profound philosophy where movement serves as the foundation for developing cognitive, emotional, and physical capacities simultaneously.
• Movement isn't something you do for an hour at the gym—it's the only medium through which we interact with the world
• The Western dichotomy of body-mind separation is harmful and neglects our fundamental physicality
• Physical movement connects cognitive and emotional experiences, allowing us to observe otherwise unconscious processes
• A versatile movement practice offers alternatives when injury or limitation prevents specific activities
• Good teachers work to make themselves obsolete by developing students' capacity to learn independently
• Different roles exist: instructors show techniques, trainers create processes, coaches motivate, teachers transform, mentors guide long-term
• Using movement as the primary vehicle for transformation works because it's concrete and observable
• True transformation is deliberate rather than accidental, measuring yourself against what you could become
• Bamboo Body works with diverse clients from IT professionals to grandmothers to professional athletes
• Soviet sports science produced valuable insights but often at the expense of individual well-being
Visit bamboo-body.com to learn more about Anna's approach to movement education and find her social media for demonstrations of these principles in action.
Introduction to Anna Bezaglova
Speaker 1Hey , jeff , here at DC Sports Journey back with another episode of Down the Rabbit Hole . Today we have a special guest , anna Bezaglova of Bamboo Body , from Barcelona , spain . Anna is the founder of the facility and a leading teacher with extensive knowledge in human anatomy , physiology and biomechanics . She has studied sports science in Russia and has background experiences in a wide variety of different sports , which we'll get into in the podcast .
Speaker 1I have been following Ana on Instagram for five years now as I was trying to do research into Ido Portal and his background and I wanted to not only try to learn as much about Ido as I could , but I wanted to learn from his students .
Speaker 1Only try to learn as much about ito as I could , but I wanted to learn from his students , and anna is one of his , uh , um , primary pupils who's been studying under ito for maybe 10 or 11 years .
Speaker 1Um , you know she , she is an incredible mover and what they have going on at bamboo body , which is a physical education school in barcelona , is , I , I think , unbelievable and she's put out some amazing content and on her YouTube page she particularly one particularly stood out to me as a historian is she did this video on the training , the special training that Joseph Stalin's Secret Service had to go through in order to be his protector , and it was pretty enlightening .
Speaker 1And , again , as a history major , I found that fascinating . So I'm very interested in anything and all things movement and , having followed Anna for a while and listen to her own interviews and podcasts that she's done with with Ido and some other experts uh , what , what she has put out for social media I just I had to get her on to talk movement , get her ideas as far as what that means and what they do at bamboo body , and I wanted to learn more about what she is taking away from training under ito portal and get her idea of what a coach is and what they do at Bamboo Body . So I hope you all enjoy this podcast as much as I did . Thank you so much and , yeah , give us a like .
Speaker 2Well .
Speaker 1Anna , thank you so much for taking the time . I know there's a bit of a time gap between Barcelona , spain , and Pittsburgh , pennsylvania , but I really appreciate your flexibility and your time and thank you so much for jumping on a call with us .
Speaker 2Thank you for having me .
Speaker 1Yes , ma'am . Well , I you know I'm fascinated as I've talked to in another podcast anyone who's in the movement culture into movement practices . I think you know I've been fortunate to speak to some people in the world of neurology and the first question I always ask them is why do we have a brain ? And they say , to move . And so movement is really at the heart of what I do in my practice and what a lot of the interviews I do on the podcast .
Speaker 1So I found you as we were talking a little bit before um , from studying ito portal and then I wanted to learn from people . He's he's taught , and that's why I've followed you for on instagram for like five years and , uh , on on youtube . I love your youtube videos , which we'll get into a little bit , especially the one on stalin . Um , that one was very fascinating , um . But yeah , if you don't mind , take a moment and kind of introduce yourself and and , yeah , what , what your , what your current day job is and and everything you're doing in spain so I've been studying with adobe portal for 11 years now .
Speaker 2It's been quite a long journey . I have been always involved with some physical activities . I wouldn't call it practices at the time , but I did martial arts , I did what people would call extreme sports motocross , I did surfing , even at some point it was bodybuilding and fitness . So I've been through different stages of being engaged with some type of training and then when I met Ido , it was a very powerful moment because it completely changes the way that you relate to physicality . It's not a training method , like many people confuse it to be , but it's a way of relating to your physicality , of relating to the world through the physicality . And it's a bit of a cliche phrase that Ido said at some point and then people kind of picked up and ran with it .
Speaker 2But it was indeed a paradigm shift and I think it will be only noticed as it always happens with such events Much further down the line we will realize how much of an impact this idea has had in the world and they are having now and we can see how it all unfolds . But with social networks and the current environment of information traveling in such high speeds , it's a little bit deluded . We cannot really see what's happening , but in retrospect I believe we will . So since then I've been having him as my mentor , as my teacher , and I run a school in Barcelona we've been open for eight years now where I'm doing my best to pass the message , and for eight years now where I'm doing my best to pass the message and make people understand what it is about and help them to have a practice .
Speaker 1Well , that's awesome . Um , yeah , your , your school is called bamboo body , correct ? Correct ? That's a cool name . Um , what I mean it's in Barcelona . Is that where you're from ?
Speaker 2no , I I'm from Russia originally . So I was born in Russia and I lived there until I was 23 years old . Then I left . I lived in Indonesia for a little bit and then I came to Spain . So I've been living in Spain for 13 years now .
Speaker 1What led you to Spain ?
Speaker 2I used to do motocross and I was very into the road racing motorcycle road racing . So when I lived in Bali , I wanted to try my chance in getting into the sport more professionally , which was a bit of a naive idea , if I'm honest now with it , but at the moment moment I didn't consider it this way . So I made a little research and I found that Spain was the country where this sport is one of the most developed . It has the most amount of motorcycle circuits where people train and in four of them they call the MotoGP competition . So I left Bali for this reason . I went to Almeria , spain . It's in the south to Almeria circuit , and I've spent there some time .
Speaker 2I didn't realize how expensive the sport is , how much dedication it requires , how late it is to start at this age I was 25 at that point and in order to be able to get anywhere to a national level championship at the end of the line , you have to start when you're five years old . There is a lot of fears and a lot of things that you need to be growing up with a motorcycle People who have a very high level of performance in the sports . They've been doing it since they were little kids , so for them , walking and riding a vehicle is basically the same thing . So I didn't have this into account . I didn't take this into account at the time , but it was a great experience . I spent maybe eight months there and then I ran out of money and I came to barcelona . It was a temporary idea at the beginning . I wanted to come to barcelona , spend some time here and then go back , but I eventually stayed .
Speaker 1So here I mean you just happen to decide to open your own school . Like how did that happen ?
Speaker 2well . So nine years ago my father passed away and I got a little bit of inheritance money which wasn't enough really for anything significant like I couldn't buy an apartment with this , I couldn't even buy a car with this but it was some money that I could either just spend traveling and doing whatever or I could put it into something . So the only reason I've opened the school was because I had this money . I was doing this thing with the door and me and my husband we thought like let's open a facility and we did so . That's the story . Basically , it wasn't that I had a dream of having a school I . There are pros and cons . I love it . I'm very happy with what I have in life right now , but it wasn't a conscious decision at the moment . It was just Pulled by circumstance into it .
Speaker 1Let's say Well , I'm sorry for the loss of your father , but I mean that's pretty cool that there's a bit of a happy ending to that . Yeah , that's always interesting . I'm very curious with how people kind of start and get into owning their own practice . Now , with that , you had already been studying under Ido for a couple of years and then opened your own facility in Barcelona . What was the climate as far as other training schools or facilities there before you started ? Bamboo Body ? Were people even moving enough or were they mostly doing like CrossFit or some other kind of training ? Because you know from the outside in what you do in the movement practice or with Ido is a lot different than conventional . You know gym , so which I think is fantastic , but you know what was kind of the climate before you started there , because I mean eight years , that's that's a long time to be in business . So congratulations for that .
Speaker 2Thank you started there , because I mean eight years , that's . That's a long time to be in business . So congratulations for that , thank you at first . And especially in spain , it's not a very business friendly country , but so there are a few things that I want to pull back on . So what I understand by movement , that's not that's the thing that we need to get into , I think we will .
Speaker 2We will , yes , a little bit more in depth , but in terms of the facility , I don't think there was anything that was remotely similar to what we did , in Spain at least , and now there is a lot of places that are
The Paradigm Shift in Movement
Speaker 2opening . They're like more . They have offered more variety of things . It's not a gym with the machines , but eight years ago I think it was mostly CrossFit , and it actually was , I think , at the height of the CrossFit fever , so it was very popular . There were CrossFit gyms popping out at every corner . Now I see , actually I think they are getting rid of affiliation with CrossFit . They're still doing basically the same thing , but they are doing it under some different name because they had an affiliation problem , which also probably was a problem .
Speaker 1CrossFit had a lot of problems , yeah .
Speaker 2Affiliation program . I wanted to say , but yeah .
Speaker 1Interesting . Well , okay , to tie back into what you were just alluding to , because that is a question just alluding to , uh , because that that is a question like , and I know it's probably not the easiest way or to define , but how do you define movement practice or what it is you you've learned from ito and what it is you do on your own and at your own facility ?
Speaker 2there are also different levels of definition . I would say so to define movement as a separated concept is really tricky , because this word means everything . And because it means everything , it really doesn't mean nothing . Because , on a very pragmatic level , if we talk about physical movement of the body , it doesn't matter what you do , you're moving . So you can take it to and some people did take it to this extreme Like , if you move your body , it doesn't matter what you do Pilates , you do yoga , you do CrossFit , you do fitness , you're moving .
Speaker 2So now , because , also in the climate of everything needed to be marketed , people are always looking for a different way to market things . So now people prefer to market Pilates classes as movement classes or dance classes as movement classes , which , on some level of analysis , is correct . They are moving , you cannot argue with that , and what we are trying to do through our work is developing the capacity of an individual in question , who is having a practice , to learn better in physical practices . But also it extrapolates and expands into everything you do eventually in life . So the way we see movement is first of all , it's a necessity of life . It's not something that is a luxury or a thing that you go to do once a day for an hour in the gym . You live in a physical body . This is the only medium through which you interact with the environment , and this Western dichotomy of body and mind separation is very harmful , I think , and it has been going for such a long time . And with all the development of technology and putting cognitive capacity of human beings on the pedestal , we completely forgot that mind is not the only thing we consist of . So we can talk about different categories of experience . There is a cognitive experience thoughts , the process of thoughts arising or you're doing in more unconscious way , which is also a very questionable topic . There is emotional layer , which everyone experiences emotions . And then there is a physical movement of the body . Physical movement of the body connects all of these categories .
Speaker 2Ido uses this analogy a lot comes from Rasmus Olme . It's a dance teacher of the spinning coin . So the body and the mind we can think of them as two sides of the same coin . So when the coin is moving , that's the only moment when you can see both sides . When the coin stops , you see the one or another . So it's very easy to get caught into thinking and into all these ruminations and associative quality that people in the West especially are suffering from a lot that creates anxieties and general dissociation from the world . Or you can also completely neglect this part and only be busy with aesthetics of the body , of building muscle , of building physical skill . So the idea of what we do is to bring all parts of individual together , as the movement is used as a medium for that .
Speaker 2Because of what I just mentioned , because when you're moving you can clearly perceive yourself and through this practice you can develop the capacity to observe other processes that are very tricky to observe , like the process of the thought appearing and how are we getting entangled in this or the process of an emotion appearing and taking you completely out of yourself . And also , of course , on the level of physicality . We want to have a body that is versatile . I don't want to be specialized on one thing , because eventually you will pay the price for anything you specialize in , and also , in a way , when you're doing movement , you're kind of specializing in movement . But what is good about this kind of approach is that it always offers you an option . You're injured , you can do something else . You cannot stand up on your feet , you can do something else . So the question is how to be engaged all the time with the presence , what's happening around you in life , and it is done through physical movement , mostly because of what you said at the very beginning .
Speaker 2When we really go back and we figure out , why do we have the brain that we have the consciousness , that we have the cognition that we have ? The only reason for that is physical movement . We have the cognition that we have . The only reason for that is physical movement . So physical movement was primary and then everything else that we associate with a human being came because of that . So it will be really silly to expect that we can really profoundly affect what came later without addressing what was there always , which is body , physical movement . So this is going into like a big , big scheme of thing now getting a little bit more on the pragmat .
Speaker 2Back to the pragmatic level . How does it look on the day-to-day actual physical practice , actual physical practice ? What we're trying to do is to address the way you move , not any specific skill in particular , but the operating system of the body , like underlying capacities that people are using when they're playing football , they're playing rugby , they're going to wrestling class , they are dancing , etc . Etc . So this operating system , it has to be addressed through something . That's why the practice looks as if it would be a football drill , a gymnastics drill , a drill from capoeira , a drill from boxing , because , of course , all these places , all this discipline , they have an essence that is communicated through these exercises .
Speaker 2Like just a drill has a purpose of teaching you a rhythm , for example , and the rhythm is a shared quality of many disciplines . You have rhythm and football , you have rhythm and basketball , you have it in boxing . You have rhythm in football , you have rhythm in basketball , you have it in boxing , you have it in dancing . So when you think in these terms and you address the quality of rhythmicality of the person , of how he's able to catch the rhythm , maintain the rhythm , break the rhythm , etc . Then this quality can be applied across all these different disciplines .
Speaker 2And when you're working with this aim to change this quality and not specifically your capacity to maintain rhythm in the boxing match , all of this will be affected . So you're not only becoming good at boxing , even if you are doing a boxing drill , but if you have this approach and if you're looking for this essence inside of the boxing drill , you can then pull it out into the rest of the things , and this is why we also switch things all the time , because in order to be non-specific , you have to change things around a center that is not changing , like rhythm . For example , I would work on the rhythm doing a boxing drill , doing a dancing drill or doing a basketball drill , but I will be looking for the same thing in all of them . I hope it . I know it's a bit going to many directions because it's a very . When we're trying to really explain it it becomes like very branchy and there are a lot of things that are involved , but hopefully it makes sense so far .
Speaker 1So let me know if it doesn't and I'll try to elaborate . No , it makes 100% sense to me and the listeners and it ties in with so much what I believe in what I do in my practice and some of the podcasts that I've already done with , for instance , let's just say , functional neurologists . So I work with a lot of children that have neurological developmental delays and you were talking about rhythm . Rhythm is important for everything , as you alluded to it , but it's also important for cognition , it's important for speaking , it's important for communication , it's important for all facets , right ? So rhythm and kind of processing speed kind of go hand in hand . So , as you're alluding to , you know , working on rhythm in different contexts can have transfer to a lot of things , right ? So there's general transfer and there's more specific transfer , and working on the general transfer is a large part of what I do with these children with neurological developmental delays , and so I love that that you work on . You give the example of rhythm , because that is such an important facet of life . I mean that's you work on , you give the example of rhythm , because that is such an important facet of life . I mean that's , that's a life thing , that's not just a . You know it doesn't just go to just movement . I mean it's ties in with cognition and I'm going to geek out for a second , so I apologize , but if you were to look at the analogy I give is , if you look at the brain like like Legos , right , each piece kind of leads to this . We're always talking and wanting the prefrontal cortex , we want that executive function , that higher level thinking and all this intelligence , right , which I know you did a podcast with Ido and you're talking about what is intelligence and this , and a lot of times it's defined by mathematics or defined by books , book smart and stuff , but nonetheless . But the puzzle piece that comes before that front part is your motor brain , and so motor brain drives the prefrontal cortex and behind that is the sensory brain . So it's a sensory motor system nonetheless , and so sensory motor go hand in hand .
Speaker 1So all of this movement and rhythm that you're talking about , trying to tie it back , can help you in everything . It's not just in movement practices , it can help in everything . So what I try to teach my children I have three small children is I just want them to move because it's going to help their brain and it's going to help them throughout life and I love that . Again , you guys very elegantly talk about this in other podcasts and other things you've done of how it all it's interconnected and it's very entangled with with everything . It's not just this , you know , this movement for basketball , movement for motocross or movement for anything . It's very entangled with everything you do . I absolutely love that . Sorry , yeah , go for it .
Speaker 2So I wanted to I mentioned this a little bit at the beginning but then I kind of went off that about three parts of that constitute the human experience , which is cognitive , emotional and physical . So this is the point . The point is that the practice of movement is not for being better at movement , it's to being better in life . If I can't do a one-arm handstand but I am not able to read a book and relate the ideas in the book , what it's worth ? I'm not complete as a human being . What it's worth ? I'm not complete as a human being .
Speaker 2So the idea behind the practice that we offer is you can call it self-development maybe , or just the general growth is just done through a medium that is primordial . Like you're saying , and also I mentioned that at the beginning you cannot address things on the top if you don't address the base of the house . Yes , if the base is scrambling . If you're not , you don't know where your left and right is . If you are not able to do basic things like coming on and off the floor , your cognition is limited . You're running on an associative quality . So the intelligence that you're calling the book smart , for me is also not intelligence , the relating of the data like chat GPT does , or like Roomba robot does . That was an analogy that the dog gave us the last time , which I find very compelling . But Roomba seems like it's an intelligent thing , but is it or an ant ? People would argue that ants and other insects , they have a certain type of intelligence . I wouldn't call it this way . I wouldn't use the same word At the end . Maybe it's different in semantics and you can talk about levels of intelligence , but for me , intelligence it lies in the capacity to apply yourself . If I'm a great athlete or I'm an incredible intellectual self , if I'm a great athlete or I'm incredible intellectual but I'm not able to understand basic economics , there's something missing . If I am a great musician and a genius writer but I don't know how to fry an egg , there's something missing .
Speaker 2So how do you address these things ? There is a way which is very tangible , because if I tell you now to try to follow the line of your thoughts , it will be really tricky . In two seconds you're off . If anyone meditated for five minutes in their life , they know how it happens . Like , what is the emotion you're feeling now ?
Speaker 2People don't know how to name it , but if I tell you , lift your right arm , this is a very clear instruction , so I can bring your attention to something . I can make you do something in the world that you're aware of . You know that this is the right and this is the arm and I told you to lift it . So you're making an action that is conscious . So you're making an action that is conscious , and the more you're engaged with making actions that are conscious , the more you're able to stabilize the state of consciousness and be aware of everything you're doing . So when you need to solve , I don't know , a mathematical problem in front of you , you can have tools to be able to do that . But because you are doing all these other things , you are solving how to do a cartwheel and you are trying to find a way to place the hands and whatever .
Speaker 2Whatever example I take , the primacy of movement is evident , but for some people , for some reason , people don't connect it . But this is the whole point to be able to live life , fully engaged with life and fully present to life , to be your own agent that makes decisions , and not something inside of you making decisions for you , because you are not aware of all these processes going inside . But the movement . It has to start with the movement , and then it has to expand and cover the rest .
Speaker 1You're here and again to your point , especially with the world
The Role of Teachers and Coaches
Speaker 1we're in and cognition and mental health and everything there are , at least with children with neurological developmental delays , part of why they have emotional trouble emotional regulation is a lack of proprioception . Regulation is a lack of proprioception , right ? They can't feel their bodies right , so they don't understand . It's hard for them to understand emotions if they can't do this . And the adult , the child's brain or the adult's brain , is built on the child's brain is a phrase I use all the time , and so you'll have adults that have this , and so one of the underlying reasons for this lack of proprioception is lack of movement . And so , so you know , try to talk about anyone that has anxiety . Uh , at least you know part is right . Go move , um , you know . That's why you know there's different cultures , like japanese talk about forest bathing and just go walk through the forest and go do different things . You know , um , but yeah , it's all , it's all very connected and I absolutely love that . Yep , go for it .
Speaker 2But there has to be one little caveat on that , because movement can be mechanical and mechanical movement doesn't have the same effect . You have to be aware of what you're doing and you have to deliberately bring all parts of yourself to do the action . You must have your cognition present , not this rumination , but you have to be able to process what you're doing on the cognitive level , which is very slow . This is why many adults are hesitant to get engaged with these practices , because they feel stupid , because the faculty that they're used to use in order to learn new things is not developed in this particular area . They don't know where the left and right is and which hand I'm putting now on the floor when they're looking at me .
Speaker 2So there has to be this element , just movement . Of course it's better than nothing at all , but you will only affect the structure , you will not affect the whole individual . So this aspect of presence , of bringing yourself fully emotionally and cognitively to what you're doing , is very , very important and it has to be created from the outside , because , unless person has already experience in being engaged with this kind of practices , this is the work of a teacher to create the conditions in which people will not just be moving mechanically , but will be actually paying attention to everything they're doing you just hit on about five questions I have written down , so one , okay , I guess .
Speaker 1Uh , what is the role of a good coach ?
Speaker 2This is the one thing that I've just mentioned To create conditions . That would be a very general way of describing it for me . To create conditions for people to learn something , and sometimes it could be a more technical approach . Sometimes it can be an approach that makes people something in them flourish to the surface . There are different ways of teaching and a good coach has to know different ways of teaching , has to know pedagogy , has to know , of course , what the subject of what the person is coaching is .
Speaker 2If you're a business coach , you have to know how to run a business , and this is something that I have a lot of problem with in the current world that you go when you're 25 years old and you do a coaching course into months and then you're trying to coach people in business when you never ran a business in your entire life . So this is one thing A coach first have to have experience , direct experience , in what they're coaching . So the person cannot move and never could move . Probably it's not the best person to go to to learn about movement . If the person never ran a business in their life which was successful , it's probably not the best person to go and learn about the business .
Speaker 2Understanding of pedagogy and psychology is very important . I will not even if 10 people in the class are learning exactly the same movement . I will come to each of them and I will tell them very different things , and for some I will not tell anything at all , because I think that at this moment what is more valuable is this person understands by themselves what needs to be done . I want to give people agency so they are not dependent on me . So this is probably not that much of a coach work , but a teacher A teacher needs to make himself obsolete if it's a good teacher . Coach is more of a profession . That is there .
Speaker 1Can you ? Can you say that again ? Because , ma'am I , I , that's what my business model is is I tell everyone that comes in . Sorry , I didn't mean to cut you off , but that I mean right there .
Speaker 1For me , the role of a good parent , a good coach , is to teach to the point where I'm not needed and try to step back . And I can't tell you and I've seen this more and more , I've been knocking wood , been in business for 12 years now Parents that want me to handhold their athletes , their children , through everything , and I'm like , no , that's not what I do . I want to teach them to be self-regulating , and you know what I mean . I teach , I give them the tools and if I see a problem don't , don't get me wrong I'll intervene , but , like , I want to teach them to the point where I'm not needed . And sometimes people , uh , see that as lazy coaching , but I see that as the opposite . So thank you for that quote . If you want to say that again , please for the people in the back , because that was awesome a good teacher must make himself obsolete .
Speaker 2That's the the phrase . But what I also want to to mention which is an important thing and I've talked about it somewhere before like people use these words interchangeably , like a coach , an instructor , a trainer but they're very different professions so you would have like a hierarchy which doesn't mean that one is better than the other . It's just a different function . The instructor is the person who just shows you techniques of something and needs to monitor more or less what you're doing . Then you have a trainer , a person that trains you and there is already a certain process involved . If I want to teach a person to do a squat and improve the amount of weight in a squat let's take this example then I need to understand what is the process that I need to put person through to get to the point where they want to go . So this is a different profession . Instructor doesn't need to have that knowledge . You just need to understand the technical execution of the squat . Okay , if you talk about it squat as an example here , so the instructor will just tell you the technical execution , show that to you , then go home . The trainer already some kind of a process is involved . More long-term , I need to bring you to do double your body weight , let's say , and I know exactly how to apply . Then there is a coach which has to motivate you , that has to bring another kind of coaching and talking to you and work with the mindset , work with how you approach your training , and also it also involves some kind of autonomy , but coaching still necessitates , like , a constant present of a coach . A teacher is a person that creates a process through which you become a better learner , and this process can be created through anything . And then there is a person who is a mentor , which stays with you forever .
Speaker 2In my eyes , I cannot see the world in which I don't go to Ido for advice about certain things , just because all his years of experience before me always will make him a few steps ahead . And I need to have someone who sees my weak links and who sees the points where I'm failing . So , in a way , I'm doing things by myself . I'm my own agent , but I do want someone from the outside monitoring me , because I want the growth to continue . If I am the one choosing what I'm doing all the time , it's not going to happen . But he's not there watching me every time or telling me every day what to do , but he took me through a process of transformation and I continue going to him . I continue learning with him , which doesn't mean that I depend on him 100% , but I want to have someone who is monitoring my progress and holding me accountable .
Speaker 1Awesome . Well , can we ? I could go multiple directions here with questions , but can we backtrack a little bit , if it's okay , Because we've said his name a thousand times Ido Portal . How did you come across Ido and have been working with him for 11 years ? What does that mean and you've mentioned several times here and in other podcasts transformation , if you don't mind , I'd love to know about , and you don't have to get into the details if you don't want to , man , but just what do you mean ? Define your transformation ?
Speaker 2I'm a different person than I was , and it's a deliberate thing . We're all different people from World War V , x , xv years ago . But in most cases the transformation happens because we just follow the events unfolding . It's not directed in any way . My transformation was directed and I have the capacity now to see my vices and not follow on to them . And of course , there are moments when you sleep here and there . But I'm a person that can definitely say that I have walked through a path deliberately , that brought me somewhere closer to where I want to be In this process of transformation . Also , that's another thing that scares people a lot . There's not a point that I will arrive at someday . The only point you arrive at is the grave . So this transformation is always happening between who you are now and who you could become in 10 years . But this 10 years every year it doesn't become 9 or 8 . It continues being further and further away . So it's like this parable , you know , with the donkey and the carrot a little bit , but it's not miserable because I'm all the time measuring myself to a kind of person I would like to be and I want to do things that I would like to do , and the vices and the incapacities to take decisions and to follow up through them . This is why many people cannot do with their life what they want it out to be , and this is the transformation I'm talking about . So I'm constantly transforming , I'm in the process of becoming something else that I am not , and it's it's a law of evolution , it's . You cannot escape this . You're always transforming in any way . But the transformation that I'm talking about is deliberate . I'm measuring myself against something that I want to be and I'm doing steps day to day in order to move in this direction and not in any other random direction that I didn't choose .
Speaker 2And how I met Ido ? It's a very also trivial story . Someone just told me about him . Like I was training at the beach , I was doing some calisthenics here in Barcelona , then someone came . She took a picture of me for some project . And then I met this person she's still my good friend , samantha just walking on the street and I was like , oh , you were the girl who took the picture and we started talking and she was about to go to his workshop . And she told me ah , look up this guy , it's very interesting . And I looked it up , I read all his blog , I watched all the videos he had back then on YouTube and I paid online coaching the next day and that's it . Here I am , 11 years later . That's awesome Now .
Speaker 2Did you have a specific goal in mind when you started working with him or was it just kind of like ? I just want to be also honest with what I want to offer them . But mostly people see handstands and ring work and crazy locomotion stuff and acrobatics and they want to do these things . So my desire was very trivial I wanted to be stronger . I wanted to to do all these things on the rings . I want to do a handstand . So that was the initial goal and , in a way , coming back to your question about mentors and teachers , if he brought me to have a handstand and do all these crazy things on rings but he took me beyond that If I would be the one that is choosing where to go and how to direct my life , I would just continue smashing calisthenics
Transformation Through Movement Practice
Speaker 2reps on the rings right now and I wouldn't develop past that .
Speaker 2So this is an indication . You have to walk through some door into this , for which , for me , was strength work and handstands , which is absolutely legit and fine and it's great to do these things , but I was taking to somewhere else and if I would continue deciding to go in this direction , I would just run into , you know , a wall at some point . And I'm happy that in a way , I was redirected , because , also , this is the process of of studying with someone . This people are very afraid of , of losing their capacity to decide , of like the authority will eat you alive . Somehow . I don't have a problem with authority when it's earned , when it's not imposed on you by some random capacity , but when the person knows more than me and when the person can see something that I'm not seeing , why don't I trust this person if I already build the relationship with him , him ?
Speaker 2So , whenever you're starting to work with a true teacher , a person who's really going to bring you this transformation , you have to kill parts of yourself .
Speaker 2You have to completely undo certain things and habits that people really cling to like , really hold on , because they perceive it as their identity . And this is why many people drop and why many people don't stay with teachers for a long time . And it's not only true to Ido , it's true to any profound teacher , a mentor that would take you through this process . He has to take you through the process of killing of things . So you find yourself underneath all these lies that you have created , all these illusions that you have been living with , and unless you're willing to do that , you will never go beyond . And , like Osho said , no , in order to go beyond , you have to go through . So my entry point was this okay , he took me to do the handstands and then , when I was working on it for such a long time , I and I realized the futility of this , like now . So now , what well , I'm gonna go work in the circus , like it's a like .
Speaker 2I don't have any problem with people who dedicate their life to it , but it wasn't my way . It wasn't what I wanted to do . It wasn't the direction in which I wanted to go . I could do that if I wanted , but at the expense of everything else that I could discover . Now do you oh ?
Speaker 1I'm sorry , I'm sorry man , yeah , yeah . Go ahead . Okay , your practice now do you get a lot of people that come in with kind of that , what you were talking about just want to do handstands , and then you try to branch them off , you try to expand their like , okay , we get you to a handstand , but then what you know , or ?
Speaker 2you're like yeah . I try to be honest with people from the beginning . That and it's like I try to be honest with people from the beginning .
Speaker 2That and it's like it scares many people off because they come for something and they see that I offer something completely different . But I also see so much value in what this approach can offer that I don't want to be dishonest and there are people who will teach them handstands and they're not going to offer them anything else , so it will be completely fine if they go there . There's no problem with that . It's just I offer something else and you will get your handstand . I guess you will get your hands and you will get your rings .
Speaker 2I still take students through this process . I still make them do mobility work and learn locomotion elements . It's important . This is the process I went through , but I want to keep all the time in their mind that there's something beyond it . There is something . Pay attention to yourself . You are what's important . The handstand is not important . The person is important , like someone behind the handstand that we want to address . But go all you want on the handstands , as deep as you want . You want to learn one on handstand ? I'm going to take you there if you wish , but I always try to keep it present that there is something bigger than that also now what , uh , what ?
Speaker 1what is kind of the clientele that you you see at bamboo body ? Do you get a lot of elderly , a lot of just middle age , everything ?
Speaker 2I have everything . Everything the people I have are very different , different ages , the age group I would say the average will be like 35 , 40 . So it does require certain maturity . I have some younger people . I have people in their 20s , but like between 30 and 40 , that's the biggest group . Let's say , I have people in their 20s , uh , but like between 30 and 40 . That's the biggest group . Let's say I have people in their 20s . I have people in their 50s and even 60s . I have professional athletes , professional performers , dancers , circus artists . I have grandmas .
Speaker 2I have people who worked in their entire life in the office and never moved in any way at all . I have people who work in IT a lot also like that's another group that is present because there's some intellectual component that is present in this practice that they are being attracted to . I have people who did CrossFit and they had got disillusioned with it . I have people who came because they were in a lot of pain and they were trying to find the weight of the injury . I have the guys who wore like a gym bras and they wanted to do crazy stuff on the rings and then they come and they completely change the way they relate to their practice .
Speaker 2It's for everyone . It's truly . It attracts a lot of different people , but it's not for everyone in a way that it requires responsibility from yourself and it requires really willingness to grapple with these ideas and to put in the work , because you have to come to the classes , you have to do the things that you are told to do , because otherwise there are people who have more intellectual tendency . They like to talk about ideas and they talk all the time and they ask questions . I'm like no , we need to stop talking now . You need to go and do your set . That's it . That's what you need to do , and I don't give you any feedback , you just continue going . So it's everything , everything it's now as .
Speaker 1Long as you're alive , it's for you it's for everybody and it's not for everybody . I , I , I , I understand , completely understand , and I feel the same way about my practice as well . Ma'am , now we mentioned before a little bit , you get , let's just say , someone that with a little bit of movement , avoidance right , whether it's out of fear or whatever , how do you , you know , how do you work through that ? What are some strategies you use ? Because , yeah , I work with some adults that just like there's just certain movements , they're just either very fearful that they're going to get hurt or they don't have that kind of capacity to even try to figure . I don't . I'm just curious , you know , how do you work through that with with your clientele at bamboo body ?
Speaker 2there are many ways of doing it , but if we generalize , I would say I will do two things in parallel . I will first create an experience for them . I always make sure that I find progressions for the most unable person , most discoordinated , most weak . Anyone can start from something , and this is something that I'm trying to clearly communicate to people that it doesn't matter what you want to learn , there is a molecule of it from which you can begin . However humiliating it feels for you at the moment , you can trace it down to the most basic , most ridiculous , in a way , thing where you can start at the current condition you're in . It's always possible . There is no case where it's impossible . If're in a wheelchair , you can do something . This is this is a very important concept that I'm really insisting on explaining to people .
Speaker 2You can learn whatever you want . You're not going to become an opera singer . Maybe if you want to learn how to sing , but everyone told you and you yourself perceived that you are not able to sing in tune . You have a horrible voice , ugly , whatever . You don't know how to breathe . You can find a way to learn this . It's just you didn't find a good teacher . You can find a way how to do whatever movement you want to learn , whatever sports you want to learn , not to compete , but to enjoy it yourself . You always wanted to play football or dance salsa , but everyone and yourself is convinced that you're uncoordinated . You haven't found a person that knows how to train , how to teach you coordination , how to change your system , so it knows how to coordinate . You just haven't found a good teacher . It's not a problem of you , it's problem of a process . Of course , there are lazy people that are not doing the work because , however good the teacher is , it doesn't matter the process if the person is not putting the work . It didn't happen .
Speaker 2But this concept of learnability of everything is very important and I make sure I explain this to people . So this is creating a kind of a scaffolding , theoretical scaffolding , on which they can lean on , because they start to believe certain thing that they didn't believe before and they start to understand that things are possible , and I try to make sure that . So this is one line of work that I actually provide them with these processes and with these molecules , with the tiniest , most basic progressions , so they can actually have an experience of improving . So these two things have to come together , like the theoretical explanation , making sure that people know and they believe in themselves . They know that it's possible . And the second one is actually knowing how to create a process , how to bring them to learn what they want to learn love it .
Speaker 1Um , now , when you get , do you mostly group training or individual or both at your practice ?
Speaker 2training . I do private classes , I do some like more intensive privates to people .
Speaker 1So yeah , okay so well in either situation .
The Bamboo Body Approach
Speaker 1Let's just say you get a 35 year old it person that wants to come in and move better . Is there a starting point that you , you know this is the , or is it just kind of , I mean , what is ? If you don't mind me asking kind of like , how do you go about constructing what this person needs ? Is there an assessment process that you use ? Are there certain movements you kind of start with to see if they can even do that ?
Speaker 2If it's an individual client , of course I'll first assess them and then , based on an individual , I will start the process somewhere . In what we offer , there is no starting point . You can start from anything , it doesn't matter . But of course , if the IT person who has been sitting on the chair for a very long time , I will probably address their mobility and strength and then I'll start adding some coordination and some more softening exercises . So that would probably be the first thing to go , but not always . It's not a linear process , not ABCD , like . As I told you , it's not like a method , it's a capacity to apply different tools and understanding what is needed at each situation . So if it is an individual client , there will be an assessment process . Then , based on this assessment process , I will recognize what are the weakest links and I will start from there In a group class .
Speaker 2I have a curriculum that is lasting a whole year and we are working on certain topics .
Speaker 2Then the people they come in each month and when you come to the group training , I give them the intro class , so they are not completely lost , but they will start with whatever everyone else is doing and this will be their starting point and , depending on what we're doing , like we're doing some capoeira kicks . Let's say , I will give them the very basic progression of a capoeira kick and people who are more advanced will be working on their progressions . People who are less advanced will be working on their progressions . So it will depend also on what is happening in the class , because in the group classes the programming is based on the whole group and also in what I want to teach them and I'm having more into consideration the older and more serious students , and then all people are welcome to join . But they will start with something , something that is happening at the moment , right now , and it will be scaled down for them . But that's going to be their starting point , because any point is just as valid as any other one .
Speaker 1if you understand what you're doing , you just need to start , and then you will be able to connect the dots better inside of it gotcha um , do you have athletes that come to you for specific goals , specific needs , and did you work on that , or you still kind of keep it more general ?
Speaker 2Yeah , it depends on who's coming . If I have an athlete coming to become a better football player , I'm not going to be talking to him , even about all this philosophy and abstract concepts . I will just provide him with the service of improving his movement . That will be it . Like now . We're talking about it because I want this idea to get out into the world . But if the person comes for something very , very specific , I'm not going to bore him with all the rest of the stuff . I'm going to provide what is needed . I'm going to do the best job I can do with this , again , based on assessing of what the sport is , what the goal is , what is this particular person's weakest link inside of this sport ? This is also two different types of assessment Assessment towards a well-being of a person and assessment toward performance in any specific discipline . So that will be also a different process .
Speaker 1A quote I've stolen and use all the time from Ido . I was curious if you follow it as well . Right , we're humans . First mover , second , specialist , third and I love that that's like a sales thing that I use at my practice , like I think that is just gold . You know , is that still kind of the process ? Even with a high-level athlete , football player , that wants to come in , you still look at him that . Or are you just going to be more on the specialist side ?
Speaker 2I will start with where he wants to start and then , if the person wants to go deeper , I will offer that as well . But I also understand that people will also hear these things and follow through with these things when they want to and when they're ready . If the person wants to become a better football player , he doesn't need all these other things . If , unless there is a willingness for the part of this person , if a professional football player or a MMA fighter or a wrestler or anyone doesn't matter comes to me because I don't know , he's lost in life , he wants to do something , improve more his general day-to-day living , the process will be very , very different and the way of the process will be very , very different and the way of approaching the practice will be very , very different as compared to a person who just wants to become better in the sport .
Speaker 1Gotcha . Now you mentioned softness and that's something I've heard a lot in other talks of yours and with Ito . Would you mind kind of describing what you mean by softness and being soft ?
Speaker 2Yeah , Quality of the body , that's a very pragmatic thing . It can be also the quality of the mind People who are very rigid in their mind , they don't go too far because rigid things they break . But also softness of the body is an important attribute of the body . If you touch a bodybuilder like physically touch a bodybuilder their body is not healthy . Their body doesn't feel alive in a way . If you touch a contemporary dancer , it might be a little bit . Also , on the other side of things , it might be too soft . It's so soft it's almost falling apart . In many cases it does .
Speaker 2But the dust has nothing to do with mobility or flexibility . It is an actual quality of the tissue in the body that can be achieved by engaging with the practices that are softening it , which is not stretching , which is more of a somatic direction observing , releasing the tension , paying attention to the quality of the body , and this is basically it . So it's an actual attribute of the body being soft , which can also be . It doesn't matter that one thing is better than the other . We want to have both and we want to move through the spectrum , because excessive softness , as I just mentioned , can also be a big problem .
Speaker 1Gotcha . I took it and correct me if I'm wrong , which I probably am . I took it through some of Ido's talks and the examples that I thought I saw him give was softness , more as a kind of a physical and mental state of being present and not having a predetermined like let's speak of athletes , because that's the large population I work with not necessarily have a predetermined that movement and be more reactive in nature , because I know Ida talked a bit about peripheral being more peripheral vision driven and just being more reactive to things . Is that correct as far as being a type of softness as well , or are you just speaking solely of tone ?
Speaker 2You can talk about , as I also mentioned before , about rigidity and softness of the mind , which will be a certain adaptability to a situation . A reactivity is a completely , completely different thing . Okay , and in a state of extreme softness , let's say you cannot be very reactive from the state of extreme softness and also , do you want to be reactive ? That's another question . But yes , of course you can definitely talk about softness in terms of a mental state being much softer , not have this rigidity in the way you perceive the word , the predetermined ideas , as you mentioned , or very automatic , unaware motor solutions , like in many athletes it happens .
Speaker 2Certain adaptability will be inside of the state as well , certain capacity to move through different options , but that's more an attribute of the mind , and then there is an attribute of the body . Which are they connected ? If your mind is rigid , your body cannot really become soft as well . So also in this case , when the problem is the general rigidity both of the body and the mind , you can start by softening the body , developing an actual physical attribute of body being much softer than it actually is , and it will change people and it will help them to get off the mental rigidity as well . But this will be a process that will be much more likely to succeed to start from the body attribute and then move to the mind attribute than vice versa .
Speaker 1Gotcha . So is this where your business name Bamboo Body kind of came about .
Speaker 2It's because of the guy that's on your shirt . He said this yeah about the bamboo exactly it's . Yeah , it's a friend . It's a friend of mine who came up with this . It wasn't my idea , but it's coming from bruce lee . The phrase is there . I love it .
Speaker 1No , I love the name . Uh , big bruce lee fan . I have a big bruce lee quote on my wall in the gym . I wear Bruce Lee stuff all the time . Big Bruce Lee fan . So , no , that's awesome .
Speaker 1Now , last thing , before I've taken too much of your time European sports science . I'm very heavily influenced by what the former Soviet Union did and in the middle of putting this course together I'm working on I think history is lost . I think history is very important and I think , especially in my industry , or in the industry of working with athletes , we're regurgitating old ideas and we've lost our history . And so I'm in the middle of putting this course together . I'm going through the history of the Soviet sports system and the scientists and things , and then , funny enough , I come across your video on Stalin and his bodyguards , which I find my background . I was a history teacher , so history is very important . So I'm very , very interested . I was very interested in your , in your video of that , and uh , I what I'll do is I'll link uh the video in the show notes for anyone that wants to watch it . But just curious , why , what , what , why did you put that video together ?
Speaker 2no , but like today , after we finish , there is another , another video coming up , which will be a completely different topic , but I love history as well . I've studied history all my life . No , any like . There is no diploma I can show for this , but this is a topic that is very interesting to me because I am from Soviet Union . My passport literally says Soviet Union .
Speaker 2I was born when the country still existed and it carries a lot of weight with it because of the history of the Soviet Union and what happened there . And I grew up in the 90s , which was a really hard time in Russia . It's impossible to explain To people who never experienced this . It was absolute chaos , humiliation . There was no food on the shelves . It was absolute chaos , humiliation . There was no food on the shelves , there was no work , nothing Like complete economical destruction . So my interest in history stems from that , because I was like why is my country so fucked up ? What happened there ? And then I started learning , and in the school , also in Russia . I have to give it credit when the credit is due . When I went to school in the 90s , the soviet system still wasn't dismantled , but it didn't have the propaganda
Soviet Sports Science and History
Speaker 2. Like my parents , they had to learn by heart the works of lenin and stalin and marx , etc . We didn't , but we had good physics , good history , history , etc . Etc .
Speaker 2So the history of the Second World War was drilled into us . It was a very . We had like a whole course , I think , on just the Second World War , which in Russia we called the Great Patriotic War . It was like a propaganda twist , and I had a very good history teacher as well . So all these parameters like just desire to understand what is going on here , the going through school where there was a lot of emphasis on history and actually having a great teacher who taught us history that's where my interest to history comes from .
Speaker 2The first videos about stalin's bodyguards is because this is the part of history that I know the most , so it was very easy for me to put it together . And yeah , it's the Soviet science . On the sports science it's great , it's amazing . I have a lot of . Also , I studied all the Shansky , bernstein yeah , we did it all of them . A lot of good stuff there and I use it when I work with athletes a lot . The problem is that all of this was done at the expense of individuals . Do you understand why they were able to go so far in their research ?
Speaker 1Well , yeah , I mean , communism was terrible , for everything . Yeah , no , no , because they had communism was terrible for everything .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , no , because they had expendable people .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Because they would take an athlete and when the athlete was broken , they just took the next one , so they could do all the research they wanted without any circumstance . So there was just like a line of people that they could fuck up in order to do the research . That's why they have such a great results and it's very outstanding what they did . Like it's not to take away from the importance of it , but uh , yeah , it's , um , it's a big one and well and there wasn't there a good bit of incentive vision for doing well ?
Speaker 1if you were to do well , you would get you get perks . Uh , you know , whether it's a little extra money or or for the high level no , it was all propaganda based .
Speaker 2it was all propaganda based . Some people and some people were like in the video I talk about this some people , they were so ideologically possessed that even if the scientist took them and broke them in half , they were like , ah fine , that's for the motherland . So there was this ideological possession , but individual was not taken into consideration , Not the scientist , not the person he was making experiments on . But there was an intensive incentive , not for the sake of the scientist , not the person he was making experience on , but there was an intensive incentive not for the sake of the person , but for the sake of getting medals for the great state and to showing on the world arena how amazing potency we are .
Speaker 1Interesting . Well , yeah , that is a huge fascination . It has been for a long time . That's why I named my business dynamic correspondence after Verkoszanskis . I've been fortunate to met Natalia and have been mentored by Natalia , dr Natalia Verkoszanski , dr Yuri's daughter . Fantastic , beautiful woman . Beautiful woman , yeah . So I'm very heavily influenced and love that . So I love that history video because that was very fascinating and , if it's okay , I might incorporate some of that information in my course , because I just think it's . It just builds on again what the Soviet system was and and you know how scientific and detailed and crazy it was . In a nutshell , it was crazy .
Speaker 2But also , if you really think about it , there is something it was very theoretical in many ways and people , so they took a theory and then they experimented with people until there was no tomorrow . But when you're really involved with , and they were trying to do it in this very mechanical way like this is . I personally have a problem with the term biomechanics because of the mechanics in it .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Because it already creates a certain model of the body that is based on mechanicity . We're not a machine , we're not a mechanism . We're not a mechanism . It's not a good model . Ido talks about it a lot that the models that you have of the reality and of your body inside of your mind affect the way you move . So if you believe that you're a machine and you move as the machine , on the base of leverages etc . Then you will move like that . But the body doesn't work this way . It's not . It's a organic mechanism . It's organic system . It's not a mechanism . It's an organic system .
Speaker 2And if you're really practicing movement and if you're really observing the processes of that , you realize that many notions of biomechanics they are not correct and you see that there is something off in the way that it's described . You see that there's something off in the way that and it's not . I don't have a problem per se with people studying it . I studied it . I think it's very important to do it because it's a work that comes Building up . People are trying , people are doing their best . Everything that is created there is .
Speaker 2I think it's very important to do it because it's a work that comes building up . People are trying . People are doing their best . Everything that is created there is done mostly with good intentions , but the most important part is being engaged with the practice of movement yourself . And this way , when I read a book about movement which is technical or certain aspects of movement , I know when the person who wrote it had a practice or not , because there are certain things that are just not true , but they are believed by the consensus of a certain community , just for the simple reason that people are not teaching based on what they do themselves with their body , but based on what they read in the book , which is a big problem . When you teach movement or anything else , that has to have an experiential component to it , which is everything in life like it's , I don't it would be strange if I started to to teach people singing if I couldn't sing , if I didn't know that .
Speaker 2But with with this kind of things , many of the Verkoszansky with all my respect , huge respect . He didn't train plyometrics himself . He doesn't know how it feels . You know what I mean . Like he was a man in the .
Speaker 1Bondarchuk did . Bondarchuk was an athlete .
Speaker 2Yes , some of them did . Ferdinand Kreis was an athlete , for example . Also , his system is much more and the things that he's talking about is much more , is much closer to the reality . And Verkoszansky , he's still the best , but he did it on the basis of breaking all these people and training on them , not training testing his theories on them . But there is something crucial in understanding how a movement feels from the inside . This is very important and it doesn't matter how much data you have about the human body and how much information you have like this which is written in the book . It doesn't hit the mark because the words are never . They are just pointers at experience . They don't correspond to the experience . Like this is I .
Speaker 2I started sports science in russia . I dropped off of the university for many reasons , so I never finished it like I did like one and a half year or something . But the biomechanics was a part of it . And even back then , when I didn't have any any ideas that I have now , when they were talking to us about vo2 max and how to calculate this , it was weird for me that we were calculating something related to the humans with a formula . Yeah , like it didn't make any sense to me .
Speaker 2Already back then I was like that's strange , like I'm just gonna go have a party , you know , but like already there was something that that was a little bit off to me in this approach . Now , when I'm moving and when I understand the reality of my body , I realize that certain things that are a consensus between people who are dedicating themselves to coaching or to sports or whatever , there is something missing because it's not understood on the level that it should be understood , on , talked by people who actually experience this and know exactly how it works , not on the theory , on the model of something , but by the actual experience . And if all the scientists would be doing the things they're writing about , we will have much more precise and much more humane approach and we would go much , much further in all these domains of inquiry .
Speaker 1Let's say , I love it . Excuse me , I love it , anna , thank you so much . I mean , that was awesome Philosophy , practicality , history , everything that I love you touched upon . Thank you so much . I don't want to take any more of your time . I got to go speak of movement practice , go move myself a little bit and then get some athletes in there . But uh , um , anna , thank you . Uh , that was awesome . I'll I'll link uh your instagram page and and your stalin video , if that's okay , into the show notes and , um , yeah , I I appreciate your time , man , that was enlightening .
Speaker 2Thank you so much thank you , jeff , it was a pleasure talking to you .