Dr. Bricot: Posture Is A Brain Story

What if posture isn’t about “standing up straight,” but about how your brain reads the world through your feet and eyes? We sit down with Dr. Bernard Bricot—orthopedic surgeon and pioneer of posturology—to rethink back pain, performance, and the myths that keep people stuck. Instead of chasing symptoms or relying on phasic muscles to fix a tonic job, we examine posture as a sensory integration problem: the nervous system blends signals from the foot’s ultra-sensitive skin, the extraocular muscles, and the vestibular system to set tone and organize movement against gravity.

We dig into why tonic muscles quietly do the heavy lifting, why frequency-based foot stimulation can recruit better support than rigid inserts, and why testing eye convergence all the way to the bridge of the nose reveals asymmetries most exams miss. You’ll hear how disharmonic feet can tilt the pelvis, load L5-S1, and ripple through the thoracic spine and C2—patterns that return unless the upstream sensors are addressed. Fascia takes center stage as the tissue that “locks in” bias, explaining chronic, recurring misalignments and why gentle, ongoing sensory inputs can override those fixations more reliably than forceful adjustments or isolated stretching.

We also tackle the genetics debate with an epigenetic perspective: uncorrected sensory imbalances may echo across generations, which reframes prevention as early, sensory-aware care rather than late-stage correction. Along the way, we challenge the “correlation isn’t causation” refrain by highlighting silent lesions—objective tissue changes that exist without pain—and how relying on symptoms alone misguides treatment. If you’ve tried posture drills without lasting change, this conversation offers a clearer map: assess the feet, test true convergence, tune tonic support, and let the nervous system reorganize from the ground and the gaze up.

If this rethink resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who’s battling stubborn back pain, and leave a review with your biggest aha—what part of your chain do you think starts the story?

Transcript

New Year Kickoff And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hey Jeff here back with another episode of Down the Rabbit Hole. Uh Happy New Year to all of you. This is the first podcast of 2026, and uh I am super excited to have three-time podcaster uh with me, Matt Boulet, as he helped assist me in interviewing Dr. Bernard Brico. For anyone who may have heard his name before, uh Matt and I have talked extensively about his work uh in previous podcasts. Dr. Brico is one of the founders of Posturology in the School of International College of Static Studies. Dr. Brico's resume is absolutely ridiculous. Uh Dr. Brico is a French orthopedic surgeon and a foundational figure in modern posturology. His work helped shift posture from purely biomechanical concept to a sensory neurological control system.

unknown 1:05

Dr.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Brico refrained posture as the output of how the nervous system integrates sensory information, not simply how muscles are stretched or strengthened. This perspective underpins much of the contemporary clinical posturoogy. After seven years of study at the medical facility in France in 1974, he successfully participated in a competition at the boarding school of teaching hospitals and in 1979. He became an assistant at the teaching hospitals. In 1980, he was awarded the gold medal of teaching hospitals. He has been working as an orthopedist and posturologist since 1981 and is trying to make the method known in as many countries as possible. He began his research on the postural enhancing system and sensors in 1979. And in 1985, Dr. Brico, along with some other uh medical doctors, founded the International College of Static Studies, where Dr. Brico remains the head of. In 1990, he was appointed as the observer of the World Health Organization. He's a board member of the World Academy of Posturology and Associated Therapies. He is also visiting professor at Tor, forgive me, Torenda University and La Spazenza University in Rome, as well as the University of Palmaro in Italy and the University of Talos in France. He's a member of the Scientific Committee of the Italian-Brazilian Association of Study of Movement and Posture and sits uh at the uh as a as a member of the Science Committee of the European Spinal Resonance Journal. Posturology is the study of the nervous system and how it organizes posture through sensory information and how alternating this information can change tone, movement, and performance. Having him on is just it was just such a thrill for me as I've been studying his work now for six years. Um this was my first time about actually getting to meet him. Now, Dr. Brico

How Surgery Led To Posturology

SPEAKER_01 3:12

uh does not speak very well English. So what we did here with Matt was I asked Matt the questions. I sent him questions in advance. Uh, he sent it to Dr. Brico, and we just go through the questions. So Matt asks it in French, Dr. Brico responds in French, and Matt translated it. So, what I'm gonna do through this episode, guys, is I'll break up the interview a little bit to tell you what the question is before they kind of get into it. Um this is dense in neuroscience, uh, and it's it really kind of gets into the the the heart of what posturology is, and we try to um we try to go through a lot of the misconceptions about posture, especially here in the West in the United States, as it's just so poorly understood and so poorly talked about. Uh, there's so many discourses on posture, and like let's just do these exercises, and as we go through, it's not about the exercises, it's about the sensory input uh from the from the nervous system. Um, but yeah, this was an absolute thrill, an honor, true honor to have these two men on. I hope you guys enjoyed as much as I do. Please give me a like and subscribe and feel free to share this. Thank you. So, my first question to Dr. Brico was how does an orthopedic surgeon get into posturology?

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Alors uh Bernard, premier question. Uh Jeff voulators orthopedic on the chemicals of the posturology.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Alright, the chirurgic orthopedic, but also a young medicine who pendant his attitudes did brick in medicine on the symptoms and rarely the cause.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

So it was orthopedic surgery that led me to posturology, but even more so, Jeff, it was the fact that Dr. Bico early in his career met with a medical doctor who told him that in medicine, more often than not, we were treating symptoms and not causes. And when you had to operate a young uh girl for a scoliosis, the patient, the dad, would ask Dr. Bricot, why does she even have scoliosis in the first place? And Dr. Bricot at the time had no answer to that actual valid question. And when a patient would ask him as a surgeon, uh, why do I have uh disc herniation? Again, Dr. Bricot wouldn't have the answer as to the why. I mean, there is the typical answers, right? You haven't protected your back when you were lifting or you're overweight. So the the need to search for the cause of

Tonic Vs Phasic Muscles Explained

SPEAKER_03 6:20

these mechanical discrepancies is what led him to posturology.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Would you mind explaining the difference between tonic and phasic muscles? And please give examples of the two and why you feel that there is such a misunderstanding of the two, especially here in the West in the United States.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah, it's capable of grand amplitude, but they resist the fatigue.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

So phasic muscles are voluntary muscles, they're muscles made for movement. They are what he deems white muscles in terms of less blood circulation, so they have very little endurance capacity. So information stems from parietal lobe, and and then you get voluntary motor control through motor cortex.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

But movement of grand amplitude, for example, carried the lomb.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

So tonic or tonicophasic muscles, because we actually divide them into three categories, and obviously tonicophasic have proprietor of both, but tonic muscles are red muscles, they're highly irrigated, uh, a lot of blood, um, very small amplitude of movement, and they are made for endurance. So the example Dr. Bricot gave is uh QL would be uh tonic muscle, for instance.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Alors to don't example. On print bull de bowling, porte a bout de bras. Combien de temps tu la portes?

SPEAKER_03 8:39

So uh question if he uh has you hold a bowling ball uh at arm's length, how long would you say you're able to hold the uh bowling ball, Jeff?

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Not very long. 20 seconds, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

But yet your head is the same weight. Some say the rheumatologue.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

But not the head of the rheumatologists, you lapport like the muscle tonic.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

And you even wear it off center the whole day because it's tonic muscles that keep uh your head upright. Voila. Any questions on that, uh, Mr. Jess?

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Alors sur les exercices.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

What well, I guess uh based off of that, why is it that a lot of people when they talk about posture only talk about the the phasic and not the tonic?

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Alors, très bonne question de Jeff, et ça c'est surtout vrai aux US, Bernard. La plupart des Americans qui parlent de posture parlent de muscles physiques comme étant des muscles finalement qui sont responsables de la posture. Alors la question c'est pourquoi est-ce qu'il y a très peu de discussion sur l'importance des muscles toniques quand on parle de posture pour certains? He says it's it's basic neurophysiology, it's just that people haven't studied it. So he says, he says we Dr. Bico and I have to come to the US so we can teach it to people there. But basically, it's basic neurophysiology and it's uh it's a lack of understanding of uh basic principles, he says.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Gotcha. So the yonda approach, right? Like, I mean, that's what's highly prevalent here in the United States with the upper and lower cross syndromes, things like that, right? Just don't understand physiology.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Uh and they don't understand the difference between phasic and tonic muscles and uh yon l approach to Dr. Yanda, Bernard, je sais pas to connect uh Dr. Yanda, c'était l'idée des epole uh uh uh vers l'avant accouse du petit pectoral. Anyway, so it's uh it's a lack of basic understanding of uh physiology.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Dr. Brico, in your book you write that any insert in excess of three millimeters will be felt as an aggression by the probreceptors and ex-receptors of the foot, and that this is even truer for children whose systems are uh are still maturing under the age of eleven. Would you mind please explaining about this a bit further?

SPEAKER_03 11:29

The two questions, Bernard, okay. Alright, so uh the name of sensibility of receptors in lien or in jeu with the relief of plus 3 mm.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Well, alors I'll see that. You see the schema?

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Alright, there are two exteroceptors so the two derniers at right, but two other are the exteroceptors on the pot of the everything you've seen on the screen here, Jeff, outside of the two images on the bottom left are the different uh exteroceptors on the sole of the foot.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

The exteroceptors are sensible to one centimeter.

Foot Sensors, Insoles, And Neurology

SPEAKER_03 12:11

And they're sensitive to one of a one hundredth millimeter of uh stretching of pull. They're also sensitive to modifications of pressure of anywhere between three to twenty-four grams. And so based on Fitzpatrick and McClowski's studies that we've seen together, the most sensitive sensory receptor uh in the human body is the skin of the feet. And so we do have muscles under the feet, and so what happens is if we put uh any amount of support, uh it's like any other joint or muscle complex, you're going to have a decrease of efficiency of the muscle. You're gonna have muscle waste, actually, is what he's saying. And it's the reason why the studies that have demonstrated the efficiency of the insoles at this CNRS, which is the National Centre of Research in France, they work with frequency-based insoles that actually have an ascending uh impact on uh recruitment of muscles by the central nervous system. Alors the Marseille of CRS is on the vibration at 40 Hertz the centre of so the the work that they did at the CNRS in Marseille is they vibrated the mid part of the foot with a 90 Hertz frequency. And so the subject with eyes closed at this way, Bernard, uh the subject with eyes closed had the sensation of um levitating. Any questions on that, Jeff? Uh Bernard Jeff. Any questions?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Um, I mean, other than just why isn't that more the basic knowledge? Why isn't that more well-known information? Uh you know, we have all these foot gurus popping up all over the place, um, which is great, but no one's I mean, they're they're just talking about let's just get back down to the to the ground, but like no one's talking from a neurological standpoint. So I'm just curious why, why, in his opinion, you know, how come this isn't well more known, or is this just something more not well known in the United States, but it's it's more known elsewhere, uh like over in France and or Spain or anywhere else?

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Yeah. In Europe, it's more widely known. Um, you know, maybe language being one of the obstacles which we've talked about before, you and I. Um I think the majority of the travaux, Bernard, France, if you mean, or in the language Latin.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

No, no, no, no, there's a American too.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Okay, he says there are Americans that have studied exactly. Fitzpatrick and McClowski are anglophones. So there there is some literature in the English language, um, but the American approach is um very highly exclusive muscular and phasic muscular, right? Anything outside of that seems to like not exist in their in their world.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Why in posturology do we test convergence to the bridge of the nose when in other visual disciplines they only do it to maybe six inches or four inches in front of the nose?

SPEAKER_03 16:33

The quatrime question of Jeff uh convergence at the racine.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Alright, regardless. Is that we're trying to journey of consultation.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

So this is your typical day in the office, right, Jeff? These are the hypoconvergences.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

So if you stop at 12, 15 inches away from the face, because that's where you function, you don't highlight the asymmetry of muscles that could coordinate, that could work together.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Oh, did you have an asymmetry of muscles of the oeil, you have an asymmetry of the muscles of the cor.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

But any asymmetry of the eye muscles leads to an asymmetry of muscles of the entire body. Um, that comes so la nuclear.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

We sur toute the shine muscular.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

So it starts with the neck, right? Adjusting to the eyes with the oculosiphalogy pathway, which is exactly what Dr. Brico is showing you. But then we also know, based on the work of JP Roll, that the consequences end up on the feet with the notion of the visual uh podal axis. So you'll have compensations of the entire muscular system based on an insufficiency of convergence and any insufficiency. So we tested the root of the nose because we want to highlight any insufficiency whatsoever. We don't test it for function when it comes to vision, we test it so that we have an idea of muscle tone distribution between right side and left side. Yeah, so the

Why Test Eye Convergence To The Root

SPEAKER_03 18:30

pathway in the brain stem that connects the um nuclei of the oculomotor system with the neck is the fasciculus longitudinalis um medialis. So it's this very, very median central pathway, right? And uh if you say it in Latin, it's even more impressive, but uh it's it's the it's the exact pathway we we spoke about, yeah.

unknown 18:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

Do you have a second question when it comes to this, Jeff, or more explanations?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Well, yeah, I'm curious why, and again, I can't I can only test to uh here in the United States, but why do optometrists and optomologists, you know, why do they stop? Or you know, maybe some might go just in front of the nose, but like why why is that like so rare or for anyone to go as close as as we do uh or Dr. Brico has taught us um to the bridge of the nose?

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Yeah, uh let me ask him. Alright, the question of Jeff for the push on what we said, Bernard, it's the reason for the whole thometrists a little bit at 10 centimeters of the neck versus the racine. We do it to the root of the nose because we see the vast majority of muscle imbalances in the eye musculature as if we would be looking for any other level of muscle imbalance. We see most of them anywhere between 15 to 0 centimeters. So maybe about six inches away from the face. So we have no choice but to go all the way to the root of the nose. Because we're just saying we want to test for muscle asymmetries and we'll find them anywhere between six inches to the root of the nose. And so that's why we test all the way to the root of the nose because we're spotting muscle asymmetries. That's not what the optometrist is trying to do. Optometrist is trying to see if you have strebismus and if you can see so they don't need to go to the root of the nose. They're not looking for the same thing. Does that make sense for you Ben? Yes absolutely how much do genes play a role in posture oh the question Bernard in measure is the factor genetic to the posture.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

You know 73% of the new knees present a disalignement desoculaire.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

So 27% of the kids normal the normality is to be a racine of the printentin 27% of the kids born based on the study that we spoke about in the course that Dr. Bicot just brought up 27% of the kids are actually deemed normal in terms of structure so most likely in terms of function and convergence. But 73% of them aren't epigenetic lad so there's there's most likely some epigenetic factor underneath what we see clinically as you have as you do every day. And it's because we don't correct insufficiency of convergence in people and so from generation to generation that actually does get passed on through epigenetics. So the idea and I don't say this as much in the course uh we would need to to correct with the posturology system the mom and the dad three years prior to them conceiving in terms of yes three

Genetics, Epigenetics, And Posture

SPEAKER_03 22:30

years before we start uh so that we modified the epigenetic factor. And and this is obviously never assessed so only doesn't right that's it so it's it's uh no one is even looking for it. So obviously if you're not looking for it you can't apply the treatment and and so the the the wheels just keep turning in that direction interesting very interesting. So three years. So you modify the epigenetics okay we there's two candles in neuroscience so uh he's saying it's one of the one of the two epigenetic it's the one that has worked on epigenetics.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Okay cool. Okay do you want to pin anything off of that uh Jeff while we're on the topic of genes or no I'm just uh I'm sure like you guys tired of it being you know a lot of people blaming genes for their flat feet or for you know oh my mom my mom has rounded shoulders so I have rounded shoulders or you know things like that. So it no it's very nice to hear uh the clarification from Dr. Brico and yourself. With 80% of the population having back pain at some point how much do things like slip discs, disc herniations, spine disc compressions in your opinion are based on postural imbalances?

SPEAKER_03 24:15

Alright Bernard the six question says that 4% of the population suffered at a moment or another is that it provides a factor pure mechanic, a little like what you described the hernies and other example Well that's 74% of the patients. So this is 74% of the feet that we find with uh existing patients, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

The piece disharmonic is a varus, the pie gauge is in valgus.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

So you see how we have a varus and a valgus here?

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Alright, you can imagine what the genou in the rotator is for that lesions of the genou and there are lesions of genoux to put these lesions because of disharmonic so many studies have been made on patients that are asymptomatic and Dr.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Bicol spoke about this at the World Congress in Nice not too long ago where they have subjects that are asymptomatic yet because of mechanical discrepancies they already have wear and tear of the meniscus even if there's no actual pain right so we go beyond and you know this obviously but we go beyond symptoms it's uh yeah and a flexion lilium at so the foot imbalance as you really well know causes imbalances at at the ileum as you have uh tilt and rotations don't have a bascular rotation and obligatory you will mandatorily have a lesion at L5S1 because of the um tilt and rotation of the pelvis which is permanent by the way right it's always there in lesion L5 S1 you're a lesion L2 you're a lesion thoracic, mediot thoracic thoracic C2 and that you chiropractician who manipulate a longer time they deplaced L5S1 will lead to L2 you're gonna have some mid-thoraxations as well you're gonna get C2 these are to some extent highly predictable patterns and as Dr. Brico says so then you're gonna have chiropractors uh specifically that are going to day in and day out work on these subluxations and never really remedy the the situation. And this is obviously

Back Pain Patterns And Mechanical Chains

SPEAKER_03 27:20

where we intervene so that we play the role of the investigator that figures why is it that we have to deal with these subluxations that just keep coming back all the time. And on top of that in one third of lower limb discrepancies, short legs that further adds to the mechanical discrepancies causing the disc issues and so forth.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Alors on experimentation at Com in Italy in college who prepared to have a career sportive or occupy sportify. And it's aperture that the statistics are identical. There are 74% of disharmonic and 14 inequality of longer inferior and 87% of convergence.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

They recently did this is very recent a study in Italy in a school with uh teenagers that uh are exactly your clientele actually young kids that are into sports and they found the exact numbers they've been finding all along 74% disharmonic feet 85% insufficiency of convergence um and so so and and a third of short legs so so it's the same numbers that Dr. Brico has always found they most recently did this study in the last year.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

That's awesome um if I can piggyback off of that and it kind of ties into one of the other questions I had Maddie was uh Dr. Brico how do you how do you argue against or or what what do you say when people say well correlation doesn't always equal causation with this so just because they have you know I I got asymmetric feet well I don't have knee problems. You know what I mean like or I don't have hip problems. Like I I get that that's a constant argument here in the United States is that correlation doesn't equal causation. I was just curious you know if he's gone against that and what what he you know his argument to it.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Yeah let me translate that it's a great question. Alors uh Bernard la question est très très bonne en fait aux US souvent on va dire que la corrélation n'est pas la causation donc par exemple qu'on peut avoir un défaut mécanique il peut y avoir des pathologies mais qu'en fait de faire le lien et de dire que c'est la cause c'est souvent critiqué aux US on va dire qu'il peut y avoir une corrélation mais que ce n'est pas la cause alors comment est-ce que tu gères ça toi comme professionnel en fait alors justement sur les travaux qui ont été faits sur attends je vais essayer de te les trouver ces travaux he's looking for papers radiology they have design of the genoux de sujets sains and sans douleurs and ill of cartilage a nice sous chondral lesions that appear on the genus. And you have double so he answers to these people a bit in a way he did already today which is that you can find actual lesions to the anatomy and all different parts he's speaking of the knees here more directly whether it's the meniscus whether it's the subchondrial area uh the joint line and essentially you can actually have lesions in these tissues which is a medical issue for anyone without actual symptoms so so the way he addresses this is to say it goes a bit beyond the thought process we have of right your question it's to say that you can have lesions without pain so we cannot use pain as the as the barometer for action because in some cases there's no no pain but there's lesions so it goes both ways it goes both ways to le fascia adapt. When there's an imbalance of the postural system all of the different types of connective tissues have to adapt fascia. And he says they've been working a lot on fascia or the concept of fascia most recently and the understanding they have at this point is that it's the fascia that actually position the body in a in a in a disequilium that is always there. And it's the reason why we insist on permanent stimulation or correction of the different sensors that are involved in the imbalance so we can re-resolve the issue of a fixed a permanent fixation of the fascia which which create the imbalances that you see that are always there until we start uh reprogrammation des yeux and it's it's the main interest behind correction of the feet with the insoles but also correction of the eyes let's say with the eye magnet for instance that can be permanent so we override the word I was looking for was we can override the uh fixation of the fascia that creates those fixated imbalances

Correlation, Causation, And Silent Lesions

SPEAKER_03 33:00

so yeah that's it in med in medicine it's always about pain but we we believe we do better work in the sense where we go beyond symptoms and we look at things even maybe more objectively in your opinion is there such thing as a perfect posture equilibrium the population balanced subjects because you were asking what per if if there's a perfect posture in theory there is and it's about 10 9% he says 9% of the population is posturally balanced to this day the schema on an angle alpha on this equilibrium so they're it's the uh alpha angle of 3.4 degrees at the angle that creates a permanent disease of us forward but it's actually what allows us to move forward in life right because we're always moving forward. So she lost the uh alpha angle this woman is obliged to make the fest on a polar and for her system to be able to have eyes aligned with the horizon the the the organism has no other choice but to pull the pelvis back and to shift the thorax forward. And so the contraint of the Tom Copa Guimon and so the the the amount of pressure in the back is multiplied by three in the context of uh anterior scapular plane uh and that's the work of Dr. Guillemont from Quebec and it's the most frequent disequilibrium as you know is the uh to some extent any amount of anteroscapular plane sometimes smaller sometimes larger um uh a reflex protection design hyperactive highly correlated with hyperactive tendon protection reflex as you know and as you test yeah shoulders Bernard merci beaucoup de ton appreciate Jeff uh Jeff is a font uh to party with you for a pet uh demiur tonight Bernard it's a pleasure to Jeff last uh words for Dr. Rico it was an honor sir it's uh it's an absolute uh pleasure to to be a small cog in in your work and trying to continue it here in the United States sir and it is uh an absolute privilege to just be on this call with you sir thank you so much for taking the time Jeff te dit que c'est un honor for lui to have partie de la communauté he te remercie beaucoup pour ton temps de son côté il fait tout ce qu'il peut pour develops puis je peux te garantir que c'est vrai il est à fond à tous les jours donc la prochaine fois que je viens il faut qu'on aille faire un tour absolument mon cher Bernard on ira le rencontrer à Pittsburgh Merci beaucoup Bernard comme d'habitude je te remercie pour ton temps je vous salue c'est très bien c'est terrible ciao ciao tout le monde take care guys